Transcribing Tips

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August 22nd, 2005, 12:50 AM
Dazzler

Quote:

Originally posted by Henry II:
I can't imagine why someone would spend all the time it takes to do that. What benefit do you get out of it?

[ August 21, 2005 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Henry II ]

Henry, I'm astounded by this comment... as for asking what benefit one would get out of it it, all I can say is if you have to ask then you're clearly missing the point. Maybe, just maybe GoMan wants to become a better player by transcribing in order to develop and train and develop his ear. Maybe he wants to work out what is going on in a piece or solo so he can work out stickings and how a drummer phrases or interprets a piece. Maybe he wants to take the time and trouble to work out a lick that he likes and can hear, but is not entirely sure what is going on just be listeniing. Maybe listening repeatedly to a piece just isn't enough and by taking down what is being played, he can really get into the intricacies of what is being played and why? Maybe he wants to develop his reading skills and his ability to notate drum charts?

Don't forget by transcribing, you are building up a library of material that can be revisited at as later date and played exactly as the drummer on the recording did. Unless you have astonishing memory and can recall any piece at will, having something written down is the only way to guarantee that you will play it note for note each time, no matter how long it has been since the last time you played it: Reading music is an aid to memory. Even if you can sucessfully work out a drum piece note for note just by listening, the chances are that in 5 years, you will have forgotten it. By transcribing you have a permenant record.

If you have taken the time to sit, rewind and repeatedly listen to a drum part in order to transribe it, this will make you a better musician and indeed reader as you are developing and honing numerous skills in terms of intense listening as you are putting every note under the microscope while reading and notating music.

You are also not just using your ears, but understanding and writing the language down. It's clear that you do not only speak English Henry, but as we can see here, are able to write it aswell, the same can be said for music and drumming.

These are the benefits Henry.
August 22nd, 2005, 05:05 PM
Vdrummer

Hey Chris,

I didn't think that sounded like something you'd say.

Brad
August 22nd, 2005, 05:52 PM
troutbrooke

Quote:

Originally posted by matricks:
you mean to tell me you've never heard of it used as in listening to music and then repeating it by playing it?!

That's what I am telling you. I have NEVER heard anyone describe playing something as 'transcribing'.

[ August 22, 2005 02:54 PM: Message edited by: drumming sort of person ]
August 22nd, 2005, 06:10 PM
trieck

The last thing I want to do is get in the middle of this (so, why am I?)....

But, if you are listening to something and playing what you have heard, you are doing nothing to advance your transcribing skills -- since you are not transcribing. You may well be advancing your ear training though if you can play what you hear.

Transcribing means to take music from the auditory realm and place it on paper so it can enter the intellectual realm for analysis.

That's all it is really. Anybody that uses it to mean anything else is misusing the term IMHO.
August 22nd, 2005, 08:43 PM
Henry II

Quote:

Originally posted by Vdrummer:
HenryII - Wow! Hopefully, I misunderstood what you're meaning.

GoMan - I've transcribed for several magazines, and it helps to vary what you listen to. Cheap speakers, studio monitors, car stereo and phones all have different frequency curves and vary in accuracy. Listening on two different sources can make a big difference in you final result. Listening on more is better.

The whole point of transcribing is accuracy. There are many things that can make that difficult. If you want your transcription to be accurate, listening at different speeds can help insure that - assuming you have the software or a CD player that allows it or want to invest in it. If Chris Perra advised against that, I think he is just plain wrong. It's useful to be able to figure out patterns real time, and some things, for example, AC/DC are easy to figure out. But I would avoid that at all costs if the piece I was writing out was for publication.

If you just want to learn other drummer's techniques and grooves, why not buy their books and DVD's? That's the best way to know exactly what a guy played. Working 47 ways through Syncopation gets you really good at playing those specific patterns. But there are countless approaches, many more advance than are encompassed within that book. There are hundreds of books, that focus on Funk, Jazz and other styles.

I've made mistakes too. Everyone does. I have even found errors in artists own books in the transcriptions, and have had the actual artist tell me they played something different when collaborating with them, than what was actually recorded. They tend to tell you either what they meant to play (or a more accurate version of the pattern). Good luck with it, it's a worthwhile way to improve your listening skills, understanding of proper notation, and musical vocabulary.

Brad

VDrummer, If you're making a living selling transcriptions to magazines, I can understand why you do it. I've seen some interesting 'scrips in MD ie: Philly Joe, Max Roach. But, for someone who is just trying to be the best musician he can be, it doesn't seem like the most efficient use of time to me. Don't get me wrong, I've written out parts from records that I needed to know. My understanding is that GoMan is talking about transcribing entire songs. It just seems to me that any benefit of doing that is outweighed by the amount of time it takes away from what I think is more productive practice.

Hey, maybe I've been missing the boat on this one. What do you think it does for your playing.
August 22nd, 2005, 09:09 PM
moosetication

Quote:

Originally posted by Henry II:
But, for someone who is just trying to be the best musician he can be, it doesn't seem like the most efficient use of time to me. What do you think it does for your playing.

You seem to be equating "best musician" exclusively with playing. This would seem to be a little short-sighted.

[ August 22, 2005 06:11 PM: Message edited by: moosetication ]
August 22nd, 2005, 10:44 PM
Henry II

Quote:

Originally posted by moosetication:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Henry II:
But, for someone who is just trying to be the best musician he can be, it doesn't seem like the most efficient use of time to me. What do you think it does for your playing.

You seem to be equating "best musician" exclusively with playing. This would seem to be a little short-sighted.

[ August 22, 2005 06:11 PM: Message edited by: moosetication ]<hr /></blockquote>Well, then expand my vision for me. What else besides playing the best that you are able, makes you the best musician you can be?
August 23rd, 2005, 01:45 AM
Vdrummer

HenryII,

I don't know, I guess I transcribe because I like to learn new phrases. I did that long before I starting getting paid to do it, and would do it regardless. By writing out a cool pattern first to make sure I've got it right, then playing along with it really helps me learn it. It also helps me understand what makes one pattern cool to my ear, and another less so. I find it very valuable, and know that Vinnie and many other top players have spent a lot of time doing it.

In terms of transcribing entire tunes note for note, I don't know if that's that useful in general. However, there are tunes I've done that with, because I wanted to get every little thing a guy played - to really get in his head and be able to cop that style. So I can see value in dissecting a tune, to really get all of it together. Plus, it can help demystify an overwhelmingly cool drum part, and make it understandable and eventually playable.

I love it when students write out a beat or pattern they came up with, or transcribe something from a drummer they like. I can show them note value errors, beaming tips etc., that can help their reading as well. There are lots of ways to get better and learn new ideas. Transcribing's one of them, and helps your ear too, which is why I recommend it.
August 23rd, 2005, 04:31 AM
no_bells

Great topic-One thing that I would suggest to the beginning transcriber is to sing or "mouth" everything you transcribe out loud and then apply it to the pulse. This allows you to internalize and also visualize it in some way. If you're having trouble with a multi-sound sourced phrase/part, you can focus on a particular sound ie: snare, hi-hat, ride cymbal etc and just sing that sound until you are able to write it and then move on to the next one.

Another thing that has helped me in the past is melodic and harmonic transcription of other instruments. It might seem daunting at first but I can truly say that you will learn so much about music and your instrument by doing this. All you need is a piano/keyboard. For one, you will be working on your melodic/intervallic ear-training which is in my opinion so important in being a better musician. You will be able to "hear" melodic and harmonic structures easier as well as just plain be able to sing a tune. Two, transcribing melodic rhythm is a little different than percussive rhythm. There's a whole other world of slurs, slides, bends, attacks, intervallic and melodic shapes etc. that creates this other side of rythm and phrasing that you can't learn on a percussive instrument IMHO. In some ways this will make your phrasing a little more "musical". Try transcribing songs w/melody, harmony, vocal melody. This is an invaluable tool for any musician. If there's no lead sheet available for the song, It allows you to go straight to the source and do it yourself and actually acquaint yourself with the song. There are so many more advantages to doing this transcription to list here. And I am definitley no master or expert in this in any way. I just think that you should try your hand at it because I has helped me in my playing and music in so many ways. BTW-I would suggest starting out with single line instruments ie: winds, brass, voice etc and then move on to more harmonic instruments.

As far as transcribing drum parts to whole songs is concerned, I think it's fun for students to learn to play a whole song exactly like the cd whether it be AC/DC or Green Day. It teaches them song structure, when and when not to play fills, time keeping, time feel etc. It gives their practicing and playing direction. I transcribed all of Tool's Eulogy for a student and had him play it along with the cd. I was able to teach him alot from that transcription-where those Tony-esque flam fills came from, cross-rhythms, hand/foot combos etc. He eventually was able to nail every part with the cd which also taught him how to concentrate. [img]wink.gif[/img]
August 23rd, 2005, 06:07 AM
chris perra

i am in the middle of recording an album for a math metal band. the artist programmed all the parts on a drum machine, spent months on it.

and as a result was completly adimate that the parts be note for note. down to the cymbal hits.

theres no way i could memorize this guys album without 2 or 3 months practice. each song took about 3 hours to transcribe.

if i didn't have ability i wouldn't have gotten the gig.

chris perra

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